U. Science says the sun and stars already existed before earth was formed.
B. Don’t forget our point of view. Surprisingly, the Bible’s viewpoint isn’t from what is often called a “God’s Eye” view; it is from the surface of the earth. In Genesis 1:2, it said the spirit was hovering over the waters. Then it talks about days. There is no such thing as a day in space. The day depends on the revolution of the earth and is only observed on earth. So what the Bible is saying is from an observer on earth and that after the thick clouds dissipated enough, the stars, sun, and moon were visible from earth.
U. Oh, so from the earth, the sun and moon may have been there but they couldn’t be seen. But there were no observers.
B. Except for the Spirit. The sun had to already be there for a day to exist. Just like on a dark cloudy day, we see evidence of the sun but not the sun.
U. OK.
B. Have you thought about the coincidence that the sun and moon appear to be the same size when we know they are vastly different in diameter?
U. Yeah that’s a coincidence. The sun is about 400 times larger. They look the same because their difference in distance and size is the same ratio.
B. Why should they appear that way to us? What are the odds? Perhaps it’s only because God made them so for our amazement, and our ability to learn information about the sun. We have learned much about the sun during total eclipses that just couldn’t be determined otherwise. Maybe God wanted us to learn more about his creation.
U. I don’t know about that.
B. Think on it. What do you think about the order of events?
U. That’s surprising agreement in order. But it still says it happened in 4 days.
B. Here’s three things to consider about those days.
1. Moses was writing 3500 years ago when no one would have understood what a million meant, let alone a billion.
2. The Hebrew word for day can mean an indefinite time, so rather than being a literal 6 days this might have been figurative language and an indeterminate time.
3. The Genesis account could have been understood by primitive people as well as scientists today and there are many today who believe in creation by God, including scientists who believe Genesis accurately portrays the creation.
The big question is “How did Moses know the order?” The Big Bang wasn’t even suggested for another 3400 years.
U. But science still says evolution caused all this to happen and God isn’t needed.
B. Why don’t we make another chart comparing how life developed?
U. Are you setting another trap for me?
B. No, no traps, we just want to honestly examine the facts. Aren’t you curious?
U. Yes, especially since you have shown such good agreement.
B. OK, so what does science say about life forming on earth?
U. I remember reading that bacteria were alive about 3.8 billion years ago. Biology seemed to mix up the exact formation of these small simple plants and animals.
B. What about the formation of large plants and animals we now know?
Science Bible
3.8 BYA -Bacteria
Land plants 425 MYA
Fish 405 MYA
Land Animals 181 MYA
Man 11 TYA
U. I think plants came first, then fish, then animals on land, and then modern man. But it’s really difficult to say whether land plants or fish came first because their origins are so close in time. There’s only about 5 percent difference in time and I’m not sure those times are that accurate.
B. We both share a suspicion about how accurate those times are, but forgetting time, let’s agree our chart looks like this. Now, let’s see what the Bible says. Read Genesis 1:11-12, the verse we skipped over a moment ago.
U. Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
It’s interesting that it says according to their kinds. No changing kinds then.
B. Continue in verses 20 through 25.
U. And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." And there was evening, and there was morning--the fifth day.
They were according to their kinds too. No changing kinds for the fish and birds either. But that’s not what evolutions says.
B. No, but it is what we observe isn’t it. We’ve never seen a fish or bird produce anything except after their kinds. All the finches Darwin observed, were still finches weren’t they?
U. Yes, although they had different kinds of beaks.
B. I can’t say for sure where the kinds end, but they still do just what they did when they were created. Now, our chart looks like this. Looks pretty close to me.
Science Bible
3.8 BYA -Bacteria No mention
Land plants 425 MYA Plants with seed and fruit
Fish 405 MYA Fish & Birds
Land Animals 181 MYA
Man 11 TYA
U. Guess I forgot about birds.
B. (To the readers) Why I didn’t put the days in the chart is that I haven’t found it profitable to get into the 6 days of creation argument with an unbeliever. Bible believers may not have a problem with the 6 days, but unbelievers will. There is so much evidence to convince the unbeliever that the Bible is God’s word, that the 6 day theory should be bypassed. At least that’s my opinion, so I will concentrate on showing that God is the creator.
B. To continue, read verses 24 and 25.
U. And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
So all animals reproduce after their kind too. What about when someone breeds different kinds of dogs, or cows and produce different breeds?
B. Like I said, I don’t know exactly what kinds limits. But the different breeds of dogs are all dogs aren’t they. No cats or birds or fish result.
U. That’s so. I didn’t realize that the Bible said this about the plants and animals.
Science Bible
3.8 BYA -Bacteria No mention
Land plants 425 MYA Plants with seed and fruit
Fish 405 MYA Fish & Birds
Land Animals 181 MYA Land Animals
Man 11 TYA
B. Add that to the chart, and we there’s no disagreement. Nest time, we will look at God’s final creation.
To be continued.
B. Don’t forget our point of view. Surprisingly, the Bible’s viewpoint isn’t from what is often called a “God’s Eye” view; it is from the surface of the earth. In Genesis 1:2, it said the spirit was hovering over the waters. Then it talks about days. There is no such thing as a day in space. The day depends on the revolution of the earth and is only observed on earth. So what the Bible is saying is from an observer on earth and that after the thick clouds dissipated enough, the stars, sun, and moon were visible from earth.
U. Oh, so from the earth, the sun and moon may have been there but they couldn’t be seen. But there were no observers.
B. Except for the Spirit. The sun had to already be there for a day to exist. Just like on a dark cloudy day, we see evidence of the sun but not the sun.
U. OK.
B. Have you thought about the coincidence that the sun and moon appear to be the same size when we know they are vastly different in diameter?
U. Yeah that’s a coincidence. The sun is about 400 times larger. They look the same because their difference in distance and size is the same ratio.
B. Why should they appear that way to us? What are the odds? Perhaps it’s only because God made them so for our amazement, and our ability to learn information about the sun. We have learned much about the sun during total eclipses that just couldn’t be determined otherwise. Maybe God wanted us to learn more about his creation.
U. I don’t know about that.
B. Think on it. What do you think about the order of events?
U. That’s surprising agreement in order. But it still says it happened in 4 days.
B. Here’s three things to consider about those days.
1. Moses was writing 3500 years ago when no one would have understood what a million meant, let alone a billion.
2. The Hebrew word for day can mean an indefinite time, so rather than being a literal 6 days this might have been figurative language and an indeterminate time.
3. The Genesis account could have been understood by primitive people as well as scientists today and there are many today who believe in creation by God, including scientists who believe Genesis accurately portrays the creation.
The big question is “How did Moses know the order?” The Big Bang wasn’t even suggested for another 3400 years.
U. But science still says evolution caused all this to happen and God isn’t needed.
B. Why don’t we make another chart comparing how life developed?
U. Are you setting another trap for me?
B. No, no traps, we just want to honestly examine the facts. Aren’t you curious?
U. Yes, especially since you have shown such good agreement.
B. OK, so what does science say about life forming on earth?
U. I remember reading that bacteria were alive about 3.8 billion years ago. Biology seemed to mix up the exact formation of these small simple plants and animals.
B. What about the formation of large plants and animals we now know?
Science Bible
3.8 BYA -Bacteria
Land plants 425 MYA
Fish 405 MYA
Land Animals 181 MYA
Man 11 TYA
U. I think plants came first, then fish, then animals on land, and then modern man. But it’s really difficult to say whether land plants or fish came first because their origins are so close in time. There’s only about 5 percent difference in time and I’m not sure those times are that accurate.
B. We both share a suspicion about how accurate those times are, but forgetting time, let’s agree our chart looks like this. Now, let’s see what the Bible says. Read Genesis 1:11-12, the verse we skipped over a moment ago.
U. Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
It’s interesting that it says according to their kinds. No changing kinds then.
B. Continue in verses 20 through 25.
U. And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." And there was evening, and there was morning--the fifth day.
They were according to their kinds too. No changing kinds for the fish and birds either. But that’s not what evolutions says.
B. No, but it is what we observe isn’t it. We’ve never seen a fish or bird produce anything except after their kinds. All the finches Darwin observed, were still finches weren’t they?
U. Yes, although they had different kinds of beaks.
B. I can’t say for sure where the kinds end, but they still do just what they did when they were created. Now, our chart looks like this. Looks pretty close to me.
Science Bible
3.8 BYA -Bacteria No mention
Land plants 425 MYA Plants with seed and fruit
Fish 405 MYA Fish & Birds
Land Animals 181 MYA
Man 11 TYA
U. Guess I forgot about birds.
B. (To the readers) Why I didn’t put the days in the chart is that I haven’t found it profitable to get into the 6 days of creation argument with an unbeliever. Bible believers may not have a problem with the 6 days, but unbelievers will. There is so much evidence to convince the unbeliever that the Bible is God’s word, that the 6 day theory should be bypassed. At least that’s my opinion, so I will concentrate on showing that God is the creator.
B. To continue, read verses 24 and 25.
U. And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
So all animals reproduce after their kind too. What about when someone breeds different kinds of dogs, or cows and produce different breeds?
B. Like I said, I don’t know exactly what kinds limits. But the different breeds of dogs are all dogs aren’t they. No cats or birds or fish result.
U. That’s so. I didn’t realize that the Bible said this about the plants and animals.
Science Bible
3.8 BYA -Bacteria No mention
Land plants 425 MYA Plants with seed and fruit
Fish 405 MYA Fish & Birds
Land Animals 181 MYA Land Animals
Man 11 TYA
B. Add that to the chart, and we there’s no disagreement. Nest time, we will look at God’s final creation.
To be continued.